Alison: Hi Starz. Welcome back. So today I’m here with my good friend Arwynne O’Neill, and in this episode we’re going to be discussing Saturn in Pisces. So, Arwynne, I think you have quite a little bit of information for us about this current transit.
Arwynne: I did a bit of research. Yeah. Yeah, it’s an interesting one. It’s an, yeah.
Alison: So, what can you tell us for. Saturn in Pisces.
Arwynne: Well, it, will be going, well. It, it actually did go into Pisces on March 8th, 2023. Right. And it will be there until March 24th, 2026. So that’s a good, a good three years solid right there. Solid. the last, well it was in Aquarius, obviously previous to this, and that was from December 17th, 2020. Yeah. To March 7th, 2023. So that, that, kind of gives you an interesting. It’s most of Covid, for example. all the things that have happened, are kind of characteristic of Saturn and Aquarius and we, don’t have to talk about that, but
Alison: Alrighty. Yeah. So, what is the shift how do, we think it may be expressed?
Arwynne: Well, I mean, obviously. It’s, it’s a big shift from Aquarius to Pisces. They’re very different signs. some of the sign changes tend to be, kind of a little more flowing. I think like Virgo to Libra isn’t all that jarring. Sagittarius to Capricorn is sort of a little smoother, but, but Aquarius to Pisces, that’s the jarring one.
And then, Pisces to Aries is another like very jarring kind of, kind of transit. So it’s, I think definitely, we will see. Some, some different, sort of feeling of, like, well, first of all, obviously, let’s talk about what Saturn means. Okay. What is Saturn? Saturn is about restriction.
It’s about limitation. It’s about structures. Mm-hmm. government control, tradition. Yeah.
Alison: If you, if our listeners wanted to explore something a little more, do you have any particular book that you’d like to recommend that they go to?
Arwynne: Well, obviously Liz Green’s, Saturn a New Look at an Old Devil. That’s the new look at the old sort devil, the OG. she’s definitely, it’s a classic. It’s a classic for sure. It’s a classic. Yeah. There’s probably been some written since then, but some things are classics for a reason. interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
Arwynne: Yeah. So Pisces obviously is a water sign. It’s the wateriest of the water signs. It’s about creativity, spirituality, sort of addiction, religion, water for sure. Yes, yes. a lot of interesting things around water, sort of. Occur in, flowing and morphing. Yeah, exactly. And, and this sort of dissolving of boundaries and, and Saturn is about boundaries, so, right.
So, this, it’s an interesting clash Yes. Of meanings. So, Saturn’s trying to make boundaries, but PIs you say, no, no, let’s not have any, interestingly, yeah. Yeah. So, we have weird sort of, Oxymoron type of things. Yes. That, that come up like, like spirituality and religion. but then we have, sort of, authoritarian, Religion and, and the sort of, very structural religion sort of, returns to traditional values, right?
And, that kind of thing. So things that seem like they’re in conflict or, or their meanings are sort of, opposite, but, but really they, We do see them a lot in, in, in society. we have water issues that come up, environmental issues with water. but there’s a lot of environment, environmental regulations that occur around water when, when Saturn’s in Pisces.
So, policies and regulations about water pollution, for example, or, or, possibly about, Bridge, retrofitting, you know. Okay, so protecting down walls or something. Dams and, yeah, exactly. water, what do they call them? The, the water walls, where like in, in the Netherlands or whatever, where they have them.
Alison: Oh, yeah. So, right. Okay.
Arwynne: Yeah, exactly. Things like that. Levees, levees, whatnot. or, or just regulations that protect waterways. Okay. So things like that. It’s, yeah.
Alison: Yeah. And it’s interesting that you talk about, traditional over spirituality because what I was actually thinking about, as you were saying that was this, this coronation we’re having of Charles King. Charles is getting, right, he’s, it is his coronation and which is that traditionally, done it, it’s been done the same way for like 10,000 years or something.
Alison: And now, he’s changing things and he’s making adjustments and he’s, bending the rules, to suit 2023, which is kind of interesting.
And there’s quite a lot of, people have got a lot to say about it on both sides of the argument. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that was an aside.
Arwynne: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. What sign is he?
Alison: I believe he’s a Scorpio.
Arwynne: Oh yeah, that’s right. How could I forget? Oh, yeah. Interesting. Another thing that’s a, a very Pisces sort of aspect of, of society is art and creativity.
And of course, Saturn brings challenges and restrictions to whatever it touches. And art is definitely being challenged in one way that we know right now, which is this whole AI art thing. and it’s amazing. What they can do. Yeah, absolutely. And, where is the artist going to be? If you can just call up any kind of, creation in, at the snap of a finger. Yes. Whatever you wanna say. Yes. Yes. at, at the prompt that that, where is authorship, where is identity, all of these things. And, that kind of challenge is, is definitely already happening in the art world.
Alison: And, what’s, what’s going to happen over the next couple of years while Saturn is in Pisces and, and this challenge is, is occurring to, do you think they’re into bringing some restrictions about?
Arwynne: We, if you, if the AI created the art, you can’t hang it in the gallery. I mean, and say it was yours. There are surely going to be restrictions and laws and lawsuits. Lawsuits are already beginning to happen over, over, authorship and I, people who feel they’ve been defamed by the chatbot. Oh, people who feel like, they’re, they’re being represented by the AI in a way that’s unflattering, they’re suing for libel.
And obviously artists are, are trying to find ways of, of either putting restrictions in or suing or, or somehow digitally signing things or, yeah, I, I. Who knows where this will go.
Alison: Gosh. But it’s a really interesting time.
Arwynne: Yes. And also, as one of the things that Pisces does is, Saturn and Pisces, could be like a return to some sort of traditional forms of art.
Arwynne: Communal forms of art.
Arwynne: So, dance, Classical, classical forms of art. Mm-hmm. different things like that. also psychedelic art is an interesting kind of, PIs intake on, on art that’s have had a huge resurgence. collaborative art forms, ecstatic or spiritual art forms is, is another possible way that this could be playing out. And, yeah. That, is gonna be really interesting to watch. And it also leads to, the need for novel approaches and novel, more creativity. So obviously there’s a challenge, but there’s also. Innovation that comes from, from the challenge and the restriction as it always does. That’s in, in art and in That’s right. Human endeavors.
Alison: I’ve always thought that the art, that, when, when Saturn is going through there, is that like murals on a wall where you’ve got this massive wall and multiple people could like, contribute to.
Arwynne: Absolutely. We’ve got an awful lot in our city. That’s amazing. I love them. I, I’ve actually I will frequently stop and take pictures of the, the mural. That’s amazing. And that’s, that’s something that can’t be done digitally, like That’s right. Yeah. And it’s like someone’s concretely, it’s just, it’s the sad thing. Yeah. The wall thing. Yeah. Literally concrete. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Arwynne: Yeah. And one more thing that, that I’m seeing as a possible thing that’s gonna be coming up in the next couple of years is, is. Collective unconscious. And, Pisces being this, this watery sort of subterranean, subconscious, unconscious sort of energy. And Saturn, Saturn influencing that, or, or Pisces influencing this Saturn, however you wanna say so there could be a lot of social and poli political issues coming up around mental health addiction, neuro divergence and collective trauma. PTSD, what have you. These, the psychedelics that are now being used to treat ptsd.
Alison: Okay. That’s a really interesting thing.
Arwynne: So the government is now. The sanctioning, especially for war veterans the use of psychedelic medicines to, to bring people out of, the, trauma that they had from being in war. Yes. Which is this fascinating, I think very sort of Saturn and Pisces thing, where you’re saying, okay, so these things that we’ve vilified, these medicines, these, these chemicals, these plants that we’ve vilified for, now dozens of years and said like this, you’ll go to jail forever.
Arwynne: But now we’re saying, okay. Maybe these can be actually used to treat people and, and bring them out of this horrible, crippling trauma and depression from being in war, which is an amazing, I think, convergence of, of history and yeah, these energies, which is, so are you saying you think that there’s going to be a relaxing on, on the, the laws or the Absolutely.
The government is dictating the use of these product a hundred percent products and I’m, we’re already seeing it for sure.
Arwynne: Yes, it’s, yes. It’s fascinating and I think long overdue. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, this is also an interesting time in, talking about the collective unconscious, where it’s, it’s not even an unconscious thing, but the, the collective sort of, Experience of, escapism and manufactured realities as maybe a coping mechanism for the, the trauma of just dealing with everyday life.
Yes. So massively multiplayer video games is one thing. meta the metaverse. Yeah. This is whatever you think of meta as a company, as a concept. it’s happening. Virtual reality has been promised for like, decades now. It’s, it’s here. Yeah. And what could be more. Saturn, Pisces then like a technology that allows you to enter into like a collective reality.
Yes. That’s, that’s not really real, but it, is Yeah.
Alison: It’s interesting.
Arwynne: Yeah. So, I think that’s, that’s definitely another, another Saturn, Pisces thing. So are, are you thinking that more and more people are going to be like, dare I say, sucked into these things rather than living with. In the real world almost, that these like video game types environments will be more appealing to a place to be rather than having to, to struggle with the realities of, well, it’s kind of like how, like escapism, I mean Yeah.
But it’s kind of like how Covid forced us all indoors. Yes. And, and then we found ourselves on Zoom in. in Zoom meetings with, with all of the invasive, pervasiveness of, of Yes. Like a 24 hour, workday in some cases for some people and, and in some companies and, and then, never being able to turn it off.
Like what could be more prices than that. Like the, the metaverse has you, it’s true. Yes. Yeah. But, but at the same time, it, it, there are escapist, like, what’s the word? Recreational forms of that and okay, these, you turn off one screen and then you enter the other screen and that’s your, your other 12 to 16 hours reality.
Yeah. You need never go outside again. Well, and it sounds tempting at times, I have to say. Yeah.
Alison: Yeah. Interesting.
Arwynne: I mean, some people were obviously, All too ready to enter that anyway. I mean, I don’t think that’s everybody. I don’t certainly think that that’s, it’s not something that’s gonna attempt people who are already, outdoorsy and mm-hmm.
Just, going out and hiking and biking every day and, they’re not gonna suddenly be like, oh, I need to play World of Warcraft. Yes. Every minute of every day. but, but yeah, maybe these things, obviously, all the screens are, are, tempting our attention and true and being made to be addictive.
In ways that seductively addictive. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. The algorithms, they exist to, to grab your attention and to keep your attention as long as possible, which is, it’s an interesting thing to think that these companies and, they, they exist in a way to create addiction, which is a yes.
A PIs, thing.
Alison: And then, what, sorry to cut you off there, but then the, What, as part as certainly is going through Pisces, which, which science do you think it’s actually going to affect more than others? Or is everybody going to be affected in the same way, would you say?
Arwynne: Well, I mean, definitely not everyone’s gonna be affected in the same way.
Right? It’s hard to predict. Everyone’s chart is different, obviously. These are, these are broad energies, like everything from Saturn on out is, is. A generational or like a transpersonal, planets. Yes. If you’ve got, say, say you’ve got the Sun and PIs, it’s definitely going to come your way, isn’t it?
Arwynne: I mean obviously then you have Saturn conjunct your sun at some point, which is, that’s, yeah, that’s something to for sure. Always be aware of. You wanna know where, where those planets are, where they’re gonna be touching your chart. and even if you don’t have anything in Pisces, you, everyone has Pisces somewhere in their chart, correct?
Yes. So maybe you have Pisces Rising or maybe. Pisces is on your midheaven and it’s gonna be touching your, your, the midheaven obviously being your career.
Arwynne: Or your, your, expression in the world, your, your face to the, to the world or your, your career. Yes. so it’s interesting as these planets are transiting through the chart.
Alison: Yeah. And they’re all moving all the time, but some are more heavy hitters and I think Saturn is one of those planets for sure.
Arwynne: Yeah. I think that’s on its business card. Saturn the heavy hitter. Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps it is. Perhaps it is. Yeah.
Alison: Do you have anything in Pisces at all though?
Alison: No. Neither do I dodged a bullet there, but yeah.
Arwynne: But, for, I think for those who do have planets in Pisces it will, it will be Saturn’s common and calling. Yes, definitely. Yeah. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing either. Mm-hmm. I’m trying to think back to when Saturn was. Going through, let’s see, where would it have been really impactful for me?
Alison: So when he went through Scorpio, I suppose, right?
Arwynne: Yeah. And when was that? Oh, it must have been a while. We, we don’t know. We don’t, it was a while ago. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cause Sam takes around 30 years, right? To go, yeah. All the way through the zodiac. So, the last time it was in Pisces was what, 30 years ago?
Arwynne: Yeah. And okay, so this is the thing. I mean, what, what you wanna make sure to look. At in your chart is where you have Saturn. If you have Saturn in Pisces, you are coming up for a Saturn return. That is big thing. That is a big thing. It’s a big thing. I distinctly and vividly remember literally the day of my first Saturn return, and I say first because my second is coming up in a few years, whatever, whatever.
Right, right. haven’t really marked it on the calendar yet, but it’s looming. but yeah, I mean the very, and my, my Saturn is in Cancer and that was a year. Holy crap that I remember the day actually, and I came home and I was like, what is happening? I was in tears. I was hyperventilating on the street, like just walking home from an appointment and.
And I got home and I was like, what is happening? And I looked and it was literally that day that my Saturn return had hit, so to speak.
Arwynne: Yeah. I will never forget. But it doesn’t always happen that way for people. It frequent, frequently does though. But Saturn’s got the reputation, doesn’t it?
Alison: For sure.
Arwynne: Return. Yeah. It’s wonderful. So those of you who’ve got Saturn in and Pisces, you, you, you’ve got a return either just happened or, yeah. And these are people who are like in their late twenties to, to 30, 28 to 30 years old-ish. Which, obviously that is,
Alison: or 60 ish as well.
Arwynne: Right, exactly. Second Saturn return and these are, these are sort of pivotal times anyway, right?
Arwynne: Like, in our society. Yeah. Turning those ages.
Alison: Yeah. I think we, we need to, in the future we’ll definitely have a chat about Saturn returns in great detail as well, because there’s actually a lot to it there for sure. Many people actually turn to astrology at that point.
Alison: So, yeah. Super interesting. Yeah.
Arwynne: Yeah. So look at your chart. Absolutely know where your Saturn is and what you’ve got in Pscess, coz this is going to be affected now.
Alison: Yeah. Would you say that when Saturn goes through Pisces, say if you had the Moon in Pisces that it would just nonchalantly go by? Or are we going to know about this transit?
Arwynne: I mean, it’s interesting that you use the moon as an example because as I’ve I’ve said, I think a few times, the moon, I, I don’t really notice in, in my chart, my chart has. My chart, my, the moon is like not connected to anything. It’s, it’s loosely, it’s not compute, it’s loosely conjunct. My Sun, they’re both in Virgo, but there’s like 10 degrees separating them.
some people know exactly where the Moon is all the time. They can feel it when it’s full. They know everything about the Moon in their chart. And for me, it’s just not a thing. so I would say it’s definitely a thing for some people. It depends on how connected you are with the planets that you have in Pisces.
If you have the Moon in Pisces and you are very connected to it and it’s touching all kinds of other things in your chart, I would say definitely be prepared for some upheaval. Yeah. or restrictions even. Obviously upheaval isn’t really a Saturn word, but, but yeah, I mean, be prepared for some restrictions, some limitations, maybe.
I dare I say like, be careful with your taxes. You don’t wanna get audited. What are Saturn Things like, government intrusion. Yeah. Like you, wanna make sure that you’ve kind of done everything right. You know that you’re not Yeah. You know? Inviting any kind of, restriction or, intrusion into your way of life.
Arwynne: You know?
Alison: Yes. It, and to go back to, the Moon, what you were just saying. Mm-hmm. And I too, I have to say I’m very much a solar girl. Yeah. I know where the Sun is, what potting and when the equinox is and solar eclipses. But the moon, I’m not tracking it. it just doesn’t, as you say, it just doesn’t, yeah appeal to me. astrologically much interesting.
Alison: So now, just, one other thing that I was thinking of that when you were last on the show, you were talking to us about how your, when you launched into using astrology publicly, you actually gave a lecture to conference about Neptune and Saturn and I was wondering if maybe you could make that link available for our listeners.
Arwynne: I would love to. It was about the opposition of, of Saturn and Neptune back in 2006. Okay. And, what’s interesting about that now is that, they’re not conjunct this time around, but they are both in Pisces.
Arwynne: At this, at this time. and they won’t actually be conjunct again until the next time Saturn goes into Pisces, which is in, 2052.
But they will be very close. Okay. this time around because they’re both in Pisces. And, and that is a really interesting energy. Obviously the, the opposition is different from the conjunction. Sure. Very, similar but, but different, it’s part of the same cycle and, and obviously the conjunction and the opposition are, are sort of the two, the big aspects.
Alison: That’s right. So that would be great if we have, some of our listeners maybe wanted to dig a little deeper into what we were saying here and, find out a little bit more about the type of work you’ve been doing as well.
Arwynne: Yeah. Thank you. Great. It’s a really interesting historical cycle like Saturn and Neptune are a fascinating, kind of, it was called Heavy Water, so that’s heavy water Saturn, Neptune Heavy Water.
Alison: Yeah well you could still call it that now because Saturn’s in Pisces, right?
Alison: I mean the two key words I came up were with limiting beliefs. Yeah. Which is the two combinations of the two. but heavy water works just as well actually, which is, which is kind of interesting too.
Arwynne: Yeah, yeah.
Alison: Okay, Arwynne. Well, thanks so much for, joining us today and, we look forward to having you on the show again in the future.
Arwynne: Thanks so much, Alison. I look forward to it as well.